Teri Hales 0:15 Welcome to the Emancipate Your Mind podcast. I'm your host, Certified Religious Transition and Trauma Recovery Coach, Teri Hales. I help people step out of the shadows of religious fear and shame and embrace their authentic selves with love and empathy. If you're ready to throw off the shackles of learned binary thinking, and explore a more nuanced approach to life, this is your playground. Hello everyone, welcome back to the Emancipate Your Mind Podcast. I'm like super giddy and excited because I have Lena Osborne on this episode. She is one of the costars of the Hulu documentary, "Mormon No More", which you can also watch on Disney Plus now. And she's been in talks for season two for those of you who loved it like I did. And she is a Kundalini Reiki master. She is a healer. And she you can find her on sallyandlena.com Welcome, Lena. I'm so excited! Lena Osborne 1:29 Thank you so much for having me, Teri. Teri Hales 1:31 Oh, I can't wait. I was telling her whenever I listen to her content, or I read her content, there's this energy of just this like flowing earth goddess that like comes out and it's so different from my own energy. And so I'm so excited to just like bask in her energy and like bring her energy to all of you. So I'm going to go ahead and let her tell you a little bit about her story, how she got into this healing space with Reiki and in this kind of post religious space, and then work to kind of dive into a conversation about, like femininity and reclaiming our power and reclaiming our identities and just allowing ourselves to be human. So I'm excited about this. Take it away, Lena! Lena Osborne 2:16 Thank you. It's interesting, because as a convert to the church, I always feel like I somehow have a leg up, you know, my formative years, zero to 18, were spent in a home where I wasn't being indoctrinated every Sunday and throughout the week, but I did grow up in Catholicism and obviously cultural conditioning. So I never imagined in a million years that I was gay, it was like, I'm so straight passing you look at me, and no one would ever guess. I wouldn't have even guessed. I almost had this feeling as a kid. Like, anytime feelings of sexuality came up whether it was like, Do I have a crush on this person? Or why am I feeling this way toward this person? It was constantly just being shoved down, like doubt central. And because I was told that that wasn't even a thing. It's like not not a thing. And so I think from that point on, I think it was like, 12 when I decided I was like asexual, you know, I didn't know what that word meant. But I just knew that it didn't exist in me. And I wasn't like all the other girls and I was, you know, I didn't have that giddiness or I wasn't boy crazy. You know, there's so many kids from that age on especially in cheer. I was in the cheer world, for so long. It was like that was that was the norm. And so heading off to BYU, my best friend died in a car accident in high school. And it was super tragic. And it kind of led me down this path toward Mormonism. Because, wow, they have done it, right, y'all, if you're gonna create a religion, and you're gonna come up with some, you know, gospel doctrine on the plan of salvation, like they definitely have A plus B equals C, they got all the answers. And so they have, they have this belief, you know, Mormons have this belief that like, when you die, it's like, there you are, you're with all your people. And if they're not there, like you couldn't do baptisms for the dead, like you can, we can make this happen. We can be with all our people, even those who weren't, you know, Mormon in this life. And so, as a convert, I was like, hell yeah, like, this is what I'm gonna do this is gonna be awesome. And believe it or not, in my patriarchal blessing is that it was from the tribe of Levi, which is so bizarre because no one ever hears that. And so I did some research at BYU. And that meant that I was a temple worker, like I, it was my job to like, be at the temple. And so I gave my life to that and devoted my time and energy to being in this really peaceful, serene, calm space. And I believe that there were things inside of me from my formative years that just knew that peace is where I found my spirituality in whatever form that looks like for people. It just so happened to be that the Mormons got to me and at a really vulnerable time. And it was easy for me to see that, like I was drawn to peace. Being someone who comes from Catholicism or even, you know, I visited multiple other Christian denominations before deciding to become Mormon, I noticed that the Mormon church had that peace, there was definitely something different about it. And I think what it is, is an air quotes, reverence. Like there's no clapping after the music, there's no, you know, loud music in the temple, like, there's just all these moments in time where they provide that serenity, that moment where you can go inward, and you can feel that peace. Now, the message that goes along with that, that makes it theirs is that that peace is a sign that what they're teaching is real, when in fact, it's just a sign that you are a soul having a human experience. And I think the profound understanding of that, from such a young age that I was a soul having a human experience, gave me the connection I needed to that peace. Does that make sense? Teri Hales 6:01 Yeah, it does. Lena Osborne 6:02 Like I grounded myself in this in this stillness in this desire for my inner knowing, and to hear that voice. And again, they they took the name of that and called it the Holy Ghost or whatever, but it was still mine. And, as I, you know, learned more about myself as an adult and having kids and, you know, marrying the temple and all those things. My third child, he was two or three, he came home from primary one Sunday and just said, "Hey, mom". And he said it like in front of all of us, all six of us, he said, "Can I marry a boy in the temple?" And I was like, "Whoa", like my whole body, from top to bottom, knew that it wasn't just him thinking these things based on a show he'd seen or influenced by some friend and his primary class like, No, I knew it, I felt it intuitively, his feminine energy is just so beautiful, and so calming. And to this day, he's almost 10. It's like, my body wants to be around him, you know, he is a grounded human, and he knows who he is. And he has always known. And I knew in that moment that my life would change forever. And so it was a slow deconstruction over the next few years. But I found myself very quickly finding spirituality outside the Mormon Church, in meditation, prayer, but most importantly, just getting out and moving my body in the world seeing it in a different way. And recognizing the goodness in humanity and everyone and knowing that I didn't have anything more special than anyone else. There was no there was no you know, Ticket to Ride like I wasn't like holding the Willy Wonka golden ticket. I was just, I was just one of have this beautifully braided together, you know, friendship bracelet, my friend Emily used to always say that, like we're just this braided together beautiful blend of humans trying to do good in the world. And I saw that and it was just this, this place that pulled me in this yoga studio. It brought me back to my roots, it brought me back to that feeling of peace and serenity that I remembered before I was a member of the church. And one of the reasons I joined--that peace, you know, and, and yoga brings me that Reiki brings me that being being in friendships with people that feel authentic connection with their soul, and not just like superficial conversations, but like, how are you really doing and like, what makes your soul feel on fire? And how do you know you're living your purpose, you know-- and as I'm like, deconstructing and moving through, you know, different yoga trainings and like wanting to be more of myself and feeling more of my authenticity. I like randomly run in to this girl like, picture her and a pink tracksuit bleached blonde shaved head, propped up on a bike, like sex appeal exuding from every cell of her body. And I just, I was shook. Like, I like I stopped dead in my tracks, and I just couldn't breathe. She took the air right out of my chest. And for the first time, I felt my sexuality again as like an adult. And I saw her and she brought up all these feelings in me that I think I was finally allowing myself to feel just a little bit like a like a whisper, a little taste, not like, oh my god, I'm gay. No, it was like, "Wow, if I could be so lucky". You know, just these feelings inside of me. I can't even describe. And I was picking my kids up from school. She was picking up her daughter from school and that was it like I saw her and I left. And then my friend, Crystal just kept saying to me, you got to meet my friend, Sally, I think you guys would vibe. She's so such a cool friend. Not because Sally was gay and not, it's just like, she's such a great friend and I think you would love her. And of course, lo and behold, I meet her finally, and I'm like, oh my god, it's the girl from the gate at the school. And, you know, Fast forward four years later, like, we're married, we're raising our seven kids together. It's, it's everything that I have ever wanted for my life and so much more. And so much more than I could have never imagined even, you know, being able to, like fully live in alignment. This in no way am I trying to put out there has been easy, obviously. Like, along with living your truth comes, you know, all the all the pain and all the suffering and all the like, lives that have had to been changed and, and shifts in our family dynamic and reconfiguring with my ex. And you know, all of that. Luckily, he's like, you know, he's the best and he gets it. And he's so happy for me, and he loves Sally, and he's so happy that I have this, you know, this, this truth, I can live and I'm, he sees in me, my, my freedom, my sovereignty. And it has been so healing for him to know that it wasn't him. It wasn't us. It was like, I was gay. It was incongruent. It just didn't fit. And yeah, you know, I think it's just been really great for all of us in a lot of ways. And we're all still processing and healing is not linear. And, you know, we're figuring it out. But that was a really long way of saying, Oh, my gosh-- Teri Hales 11:42 No! That was, that was amazing, because I think so many people who are listening to this, like all of us have gone through a religious transition of one kind or another listening to this podcast. And I think we can all relate with that feeling of like grief, even though like what we've moved-- like what we're doing now brings us so much joy. There's also that grief for what used to be in who we used to be and where we used to be in what we thought and, you know, steps that we took or didn't take, because of what we were told we could and couldn't do. And like, I just think--I love how honest you were about, you know, this is how I arrived at this place and it's been beautiful and wonderful to connect with this person that I feel so lucky to be with. And that, you know, like I saw, I was just like, oh, like, if I could be so lucky. But then at the same time, there's a cost as we move forward-- being authentic in any kind of way comes with a cost because we're not people pleasing anymore, which many of us were raised to do. We're not trying to make everybody like us. We're just trying to make ourselves feel good about who we are each day. Like we're just like, "This is who I am. This is how I want to be in the world". And there will be some people who don't like that. Lena Osborne 13:00 Yeah, yeah. Oh, boy. That's an understatement. Yeah, I mean, the aftermath of the show, but even just like, since I've left the church, and my friends, so many friends I've lost and relationships that I thought were like, lifelong, you know, not just like, ward members that I moved there and, you know, live there a couple years and was like, "Oh, you're my visiting teaching companion. Oh, I love you. We're gonna be friends forever". No, I'm talking like people that we like, traveled the world with and like, had babies next to each other. And, you know, just like the neighborhood, like energy of love and showing up for one another. It's like so many of that. So many of those relationships are gone. I have a very small handful. I think like three left, three Mormon friends left in my life. And I cherish them, because I know that each and every one of them had to go through their own process on their own to show up big for me through my transition, and never once showed me that side of themselves. They just showed up, loved me as I was and proved to me that our friendship went way deeper than our connection in the church. Teri Hales 14:16 Yeah, there's something that you and Lena-- I'm sorry, you and Sally, sorry, I'm usually talking to Sally--that you and Sally often say like about being an ally and that's that you're willing to go through your own process and you're willing to go through the pain that the person that you love and care for is going through as well. That you don't keep yourself separate from that and outside of that and just kind of watch them go through it that you're willing to go through the transformation yourself and that that's how allyship actually means and that's allyship for LGBTQ people, allyship for BIPOC people, allyship if you are, you know friends with someone going through a religious transition or-- that we're willing to, like, get vulnerable with them to step in the pain and to step into the grief to be-- Lena Osborne 15:07 uncomfortable. Teri Hales 15:08 Yeah. Lena Osborne 15:09 that's the biggest thing is like, allowing yourself to be uncomfortable. To challenge the beliefs and and the ways of thinking that you've had your entire life, you know, and being okay with that. It's like, you are like a human before you're a Mormon. You know what I mean? And a lot of people forget that. Teri Hales 15:28 Yeah, they do. It's that that Savior mentality of I have to be strong enough to show you what you're missing so that you come back and I save you. Lena Osborne 15:37 Chills, so many chills Teri Hales 15:39 That whole Savior on Mount Zion thing like, yeah, every time. Lena Osborne 15:42 Yeah, that's, that's deep. Teri Hales 15:45 Yeah. Well, as we're talking about kind of stepping into this space of being willing to get curious with ourselves, being willing to confront hard truths, and to do the work. We've been talking a lot about patriarchy, and the messages we get as women and people who were raised as women, whether they identify as women now, or not a lot of the that messaging comes with us even as we transition. Or if we step into identifying as a woman, there's just these expectations of what is okay and what is not okay, to express and to be and to enjoy, or to say or to feel as a woman. And I kind of wanted to have a conversation today about how do we begin to sort of slough off some of those societal expectations that how do we step out of the box that I feel like society and especially in high demand religion, we're given this this box of what it means to be a woman? How do we snap out of that, and allow ourselves to be just human? If we identify as a woman, being human, whatever that looks like, whatever mix of masculinity and femininity that looks like, Lena Osborne 17:09 oh, yeah, that's beautiful. I love this question. So, for me, it's so interesting, because I grew up with a single mom. And it was just my sister and I, so three women in the house. And I watched my mom hustle hard, hustle culture got her good, and it still still has her, you know, it's like, work is how she receives her validation and confidence. And I think that there can be a balance, you know, you can have work, you can enjoy your creative side, you can be this beautiful individual, and you can also like love on your kids, and give to them freely. You know, there doesn't have to be this divide. I feel so much online, a divide between like, moms who are like there, they homeschool, they're crunchy, they give time, talents, energy, all the things to their kids, right? It's 100% kid kid, kid. And I honor that for you. And I also honor the woman who wants to hustle and work. But in the middle of that, in the middle of that, is where we are intended to live. That is where- that is where the patriarchy no longer has a grasp on us. Because the patriarchy tells us one of two things it tells us we either do that we become the full fledged 100% every cell of my body, I am there. I'm the mom, mom, mom, mom, mom. And fighting the patriarchy on the other side of that is, I don't know if you curse on this podcast. Teri Hales 18:46 Oh, yeah, go for it. Lena Osborne 18:47 I was you say, loud, fuck that, right? It's like, it's like I, I, I'm going to show the world that I can be everything outside of my home. But if you if you actually fight the patriarchy, if you actually are trying to take it down, right, it's owning who you are in your entirety, which is you are both of those things. There is duality in the body that is so beautiful, and so untapped. When we have that harmony and that balance between our feminine and our masculine -and this has nothing to do with gender- this is just an energy. It's energetic. It lives within each and every one of us that masculine energy is what gets us to move and take action. Our feminine energy is what gets us to feel and to love and to be creative. And so if you can imagine yourself as that yin and yang, and show up in a space where you're feeling aligned with those places. That's where magic happens. That's where real life happens. You either you know hustle culture, you give it all over to the man, right? It's like you're building this business but it's an institution and it has a grasp on you and you're like, tied down to it. And you don't have that freedom to go be yourself and be creative. It's gonna suck you dry, it's gonna cause all kinds of health problems over the years. You have so much cortisol running in your body, all of a sudden, your body's in like fat storing mode, you're starting to get migraines, you get, you know, autoimmune issues, you're not sleeping well, like, I remember when I was a nutritionist, I spent a lot of time working with people on balancing their hormones. It's like, that's where it's at. It's hustle culture. But there's also Holt's hustle culture at home. It's like giving of yourself constantly to your kids and not taking time to like, actually carve out space for you to see yourself, to feel yourself, to be grounded in your own energy in your own body, to know and to be able to hear that inner knowing and that voice that says, "Okay, it's time to rest". Like, I'm sorry, you know, like, rest is a gift you're giving to yourself. And it's a right, it's part of your birthright to rest. And anything that tells us otherwise is once again, I think like succumbing to the patriarchy. You know what I mean? Teri Hales 21:13 Yeah, I absolutely do. Because I think that that is like one of the biggest things that I've run up against and as I've talked to other women, it's something that they run up against- is this idea that it's not okay to rest, that it's not okay to just be still, to not be doing anything productive. Because I've been on both sides of that, like I did the homeschool granola crunchy-- Lena Osborne 21:37 Oh me too. And I did the other one, too. Teri Hales 21:41 Yeah. I've done the other one too as recently as last year- like there are times I'm like, "Oh, this isn't working. Like I've got to figure out something different because the way I've structured this doesn't feel like it's working with who I am". And it's again, it's that whole idea of like, I'm supposed to be constantly working and producing and giving myself to other people but there's, there's no space for me. So it sounds like on both sides of the spectrum, that what's missing- is this piece of I get care, too. Lena Osborne 22:15 Yeah. Yeah, I think that. I don't know, there's just so much that we're told, when we enter into the space of being a mom, you know, it's like, how many books are there that are contradicting each other? You know, how many like, messages are we given and fed that tell us to do it one way and tell us to do it another way. It's like, but then the power comes - and this is like my platform really- is when you vibrate at the frequency of your own power, when you vibrate at what gives you joy, when you do it your way. And especially when you're leaving a high demand religion, it's like, so confusing to do that, you know, there's to go against the grain to stop people pleasing. That's how, you know, it's- in the beginning, it's like, I didn't even know how to stop doing that. Teri Hales 23:11 Yeah. Lena Osborne 23:12 I did not know how to stop doing that. And when I started when I held boundaries for myself, and I said, "No", and it was still when I was a member of the church actually, the last few years - I like said, No to callings and I allowed myself to be late to things or not go to meetings. Those feelings brought up a lot for me, it was like fighting this demon inside of me. And it was, it felt like cellular it felt generational, it felt like it was coming from all these different places and spaces and time and I was being called to like cut that cord and to show my daughters and my children. And to have this like wound not be passed down to them to show them that it's okay to be yourself and to live at your own pace in your own way. And a lot of times with my clients when I'm working with them, I can feel feelings coming up of disempowerment and reflecting back to them their goodness in a few different ways, which I'll do with you. I've been feeling some feelings coming up for you since I went to bed last night. So I'm like, "I can't wait to talk with Teri", Teri Hales 24:26 I'm excited, this will be good. Lena Osborne 24:29 But but so like, it's all really about coming back to the Divine that is in you. And I know that word can be triggering for some people, but just recognizing that you are a spiritual being outside of religion. And I'm not claiming to know more than anyone else. I'm just speaking from my own experience. So there's nothing to subscribe to here. This is just Lina speaking from my heart and my heart and experience tells me that that marrying of your masculine and feminine energy is healing years and years and years, if not centuries of divine feminine energy in your bloodline. It's being able to show up as a whole being and whether we go through seasons where we're working really hard, or we rest for a while, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you're doing it your way. And some of the things that come up most often with my clients are- in especially as I go through their Reiki chakras, and I'm healing their energy centers- I feel feelings of codependency come up. When you need validation, when you're seeking validation from people. And you need to feel love from other people. That's a feeling of lack. And that lack shows me that you're not tapped in yet to that divine feminine that exists inside of you. Because the divine feminine energy that exists in you, teaches us that we are whole as we are, and that we don't need to please anyone that there is no pleasing to be had - that that's their own life journey, that's their own experience. And how they see me or how they view me is based on their own wounds. Right, it has nothing to do with me. And I run up against this every day on social media or in my job like I am seen by others in a way that is not true to who I am. But the moment that I recognize- which now it's like very natural -but in the beginning, I've been sharing online since 2015, and building my business online. So I feel like I've been around a minute and I used to take it hard. I used to take it real hard and say like, "oh, I need to shift things like this isn't working for people". But I'm sorry. Who gives a fuck what anybody thinks of me? Like, this is my voice. This is my power. And if I'm not digestible for you, like move on- Teri Hales 26:57 Yeah, go find someone who is. Lena Osborne 26:59 Yes! And it's, I was telling somebody the other day like, this never matters, but it is really interesting for me to watch is we were talking with a friend who's who's also in this world. And she was saying when I share certain things like the numbers drop, you know, and for me, it has been that way, ever since I came out. Anytime I share a picture or something about my lovely wife, or my girlfriend, my partner, you know, before we were even married, it was like hundreds and hundreds of people just just flying away, just like peacing out. And, and I I used to, in the beginning feel really bad about that. Like it was 5000 within the first couple weeks of me coming out on Instagram, just to give you like an idea of what that looks like. But it still happens all the time. And it's it's just a reflection of where other people are at. And I do not take offense. I literally am like, "Peace be with you". You know, like we all have our own journey. And it's okay. And I don't expect to be palatable for everyone. You know? That's not an expectation- Teri Hales 28:10 If we're pleasing everyone, we're not being true to ourselves. Lena Osborne 28:12 Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, it's so important to not seek that validation. So another thing that keeps coming up with my clients is when they give away too much of their own energy. So when you are disempowered, when you're not tapping into that divine feminine, the feeling of needing to be there for people and showing up for everyone else, and caring more about what other people think, than what you think of yourself, or how you value your own time. When you say yes, and you're saying yes, more often than you were saying, No, that is a sign that you're giving away too much of your own energy. You know, like when you when you know the value of your energy, you're not just going to give it away. It's something that we need to all like really sit back and understand and really like conceptualize is the way that we spend our time-it is so brief, Teri - like, I feel that deep in my soul since my best friend died when I was a kid, I have felt deep in my body, the brevity of life. And it has allowed me at certain times to be free and live, you know, in abundance. And other times that same belief of brevity has made me feel anxious and not be able to get out of bed because I'm terrified that you know, tomorrow I'm going to not see my kids again or whatever. Like all the limiting beliefs that pop into your head when you have anxiety or you're worried about things. It's normal, it's okay. But being able to see myself in all those different stages and seasons of life and recognize that like I'm still an evolving human and I can apologize to myself and to people I've hurt in my past for not understanding, for saying something in a way that was offensive. Like, apologizing is so liberating. Oh my god! t's like the best thing ever. Because it's showing it's showing other people, but it's also showing yourself that it's like it's okay to not be perfect. You know? Teri Hales 30:18 Well, and it's so interesting, because as I've talked to people who have deep wounds from people, you know, like, parents or whatever, the thing that keeps coming up is, "I don't want perfect parents. I just want parents who are accountable and empathic. That's it. I just want parents who will hear me and validate me and apologize for their part. Like, that's literally it". Lena Osborne 30:40 Yeah, I think that's probably been the most freeing part for me about leaving the church has been recognizing that there's nothing underneath the rug, there's nothing brushed up underneath a rug that I'm hiding from them. That when mom's having a hard time, like I am upfront, I'm forward with them. I tell them, I'm direct. And I say, you know, "Mommy's having a hard time with this thing. It's gonna feel kind of icky today, but I want you to know, it's not you. It's not something you've done or something you've said, I'm just not in a really good space today". And like, now, they'll say things like, well, you know, "Let's meditate or let's do breath work together". Like they're so sweet. My 12 year old is, has this like gentle hand to like, put on my shoulder. And he's just so caring. And I know, that comes from me showing up messy and giving them the parts of me that I was hiding when I was Mormon. And like, oh man, I just am so happy for them that they know they don't have to be perfect anymore. Teri Hales 31:43 Yeah, well, that gives them permission too to have days where they can say, "I'm not in a good space today. And it's not you and I'm not mad at you. I'm just like, I'm processing something. And I'm not- I'm not really in that space of like, connection today. I'm kind of inside of myself". Lena Osborne 32:01 Yeah. Yeah. And just like knowing that the human experience is colorful, and it's messy. And, you know, Glennon Doyle always says, like, "if it's hard, you're doing it right". You know, it's like, that's, that's the way things are. It's It's not supposed to be joyful and blissful all the time. Or like, what would that even- that wouldn't even be great. We need to be able to feel you need to feel sad. And, and process those feelings. But something else that comes up a lot when I'm doing my Reiki sessions is people compare themselves to women online. So there's, I mean, have you noticed this with your business and like, being online and your community and everything? Do you feel that comparison happening? Teri Hales 32:46 Definitely, yeah. Especially like, especially in the social media space, I feel like there's a lot of comparison. I do it. Like, I can engage in it sometimes, like, "Oh, I'm not quite like that, or, and I catch a lot of shoulds whenever I'm journaling everyday, this kind of like, oh, there's a message, like an underlying message of who I should be or what I should be like, or like, what the ideal person would be. And like, can we reel that back?" Lena Osborne 33:13 Yeah, I mean, I think it's natural. I think there's a there's a shadow side to it. So comparison in the way that like, you know, you see someone in a super cute outfit, and you're like, dang, she looks freakin good. And that you know, and then, and then I'll like get online or like, go to the store or whatever. And I'll, I'll consider it and be like, is that me? Is that my authentic self? And sometimes I'm like, "hell yeah, I can totally rock that." You know, like, I love she looked so good. And that I would love to wear that. That'd be so cute. Or there's the sight of comparison that when you see them, you feel lack? Right? And so where that lack comes in that scarcity mindset, that's when we tap into the shadow side. And knowing that we all have a shadow side is really empowering, knowing that you have parts of you that feel that competitive nature, that's where you can come as your space of, I don't want to say worship because that's also kind of triggering, but you can kind of like, meditate on it, you know, and it's something that I have been working on actively in my life is recognizing those limiting beliefs and writing them down. I tell everyone I work with that, we're going to- three three main things are going to come up for you that feels like very consistent. Everyone has about three main stories on their hamster wheel. And the one that's it's hard to get off it's hard to see the other side of it because our mind is so powerful and our thoughts take over and they make us believe that that's who we are. When in fact, you are not your thoughts. You're the voice beneath your thoughts. You're the you before the thought you When comes up? Yeah, right. And so it's like, if you can identify those three main stories that come up for you the most, at the core of those stories is the parts of you that you feel most insecure about. And what is so empowering and being able to, to then match yourself with a vibration with your divine feminine. So flip those on their head, reframe them, and come up with three empowering beliefs. How powerful is that? To say I am worthy of love. I am a really good mom, you know, and whatever that looks like for you. Post it on your bedroom door. I mean, if I took you on a tour of my bedroom, right now, you would see empowering beliefs for Lena printed out, empowering beliefs for Sally printed out. And then we have a relationship empowering belief statement as well, because in relationships, we all have things that we attach ourselves to stories, we tell ourselves about why something isn't working, or why something doesn't feel right, or what's wrong with them. And it's like, we just need to realize that we are two imperfect humans, we are human, we are two humans, coming together to create this magic. And the only way we can really do that is to see each other's humanity, and to love each other in the mess, you know, and especially as like around to- like marriage number two for me, it's like, "I'm not fucking around, you know? I'm not here to mess around and say, oh, yeah, that's fine. Let's just brush that under the rug and move on". It's like, no, we want to grow, we want to evolve as humans, we are not going to be stuck in our patterns. There is no way, shape, or form- especially as to women. You can imagine, right with, like, all the raging hormones every month. You know, like all the different dynamics that come along with having two moms in the same space. There's, there's a lot of- there's a lot there. It can be, it can be complicated at times. And so reminding myself with these empowering belief statements, and also connecting, like, we have specific things that we like, do - rituals - sometimes we're better at doing them than other times, and we usually pick back up on them when we realize we haven't been doing them, because there's, there's there are things that don't go as well. You know, time passes and you're like, "Wait, have I seen you today?" You know? Teri Hales 37:31 Yeah! We've been inhabiting the same space but have we actually like spent time together? Have we connected today? Lena Osborne 37:37 Yeah, exactly. But I don't know, I think it's just important to remember when you are striving to find that balance in yourself between your masculine and feminine, that you really just go inward, and you decide like, who is for me, who is not for me? What boundaries do I need to set? What relationships do I need to set aside and say goodbye to? What, what patterns? What behaviors are coming up for me? And this is a life long journey. Yeah, there is no final destination of arrival where you're like, "Okay, I'm fully healed, I'm all harmonized, we are good. Good to go". No, it's a lifelong journey. And that's something I think that we could get down on ourselves about is we're like on this journey of development and, and really discovering more of who we are. And especially as you're deconditioning from Religion, it's like, let's take one thing down at a time and let's decide what feels good and what doesn't. And readjust as you go. I mean, there's constant shifts happening still. Teri Hales 38:41 Yeah. Well, and I find that as we grow and progress, like as we continue to live and gain more life experience, sometimes the things that we decided on earlier in life, it's time for those to change. And it doesn't mean that the decision we made earlier in life, whether it was two years ago, or five years ago, or 20 years ago, was wrong. It may have been the right decision at the time. And now it's just time- time to like, adjust and change because it's not working now in life. Lena Osborne 39:09 Yeah. Man, I, since leaving the church, I've really redefined the words like wrong or good or bad or right. I don't believe in any of that. You know, I think, I think anytime we tell ourselves we're bad, or we did something bad or wrong. What we're really telling ourselves is that we're not worthy. The difference between good and bad to me is awareness. You know, it's like when you know better you do better. When you have more tools when you have more resources, you know how to speak to people how to treat people how to talk to yourself, how to love your kids, and, and the part the most freeing part about leaving the church has been letting go of the attachment of perfection and knowing- just knowing- that things can be messy. Yeah, you know? Teri Hales 40:11 And that it's actually such a beautiful creative space. It's funny because I vacillate back and forth. Everyone on this podcast knows I'm a recovering perfectionist. So I have like, moments of doing really brilliant with being messy and being okay with it. And then moments where I feel uncertain or just insecure for some reason. And it's like, that's like the thing I glom on to like, "Okay, I'm just gonna do it perfect. And it'll all be okay. And then I catch myself and I'm like, I get back into the space. And so, for me, it's that flow between, like, allowing myself to be human. And going back to this, like, this is my safe little box, where if I can just pretend like I'm perfect, it'll all be okay". Lena Osborne 40:52 Yeah, Okay, so do you mind if I do it? Okay. So, Teri, I love it. I wish I was there in person. But let's just, let's just go with it, I feels. So something that comes with my gift that's really unique and different, is I can see the age of your inner child. And knowing the age of your inner child can be super empowering. Because when you run up against any flooding, or wounds, or trauma or triggers, you're going to respond from that age. So just to give you an idea, I'm seven, Sally's 14, okay, so when I am in need of comfort and validation from her as my partner, and for her to show up for me, it looks like her holding me in her arms and caressing my hair, moving it out of my face, rubbing my face, telling me I'm safe and that she loves me. For her as a 14 year old, imagine- 14- you want to run out of the house, you want to climb a tree, you want to jump off a cliff into water, you know, you just you want to like be adventure junkie and seek that adrenaline. So it's a matter of giving her that alone time and allowing her to go on that walk or that run in the middle of whatever we were doing. So that she can regulate, you know, and each and every one of us has different ways that we find that regulation of our nervous system and we can like, come back to ourselves. But knowing your inner child age is just that it's this empowerment. It's being able to let go of the attachment to the coping skill. Because at seven, what was I doing? I was having tantrums. Right? Yeah, I was like, not not good. With my, with my behaviors, I remember being seven, I remember not liking how my body responded, I would feel the flood of anger. And then I would just like feel this anger in my body need to get it out. And so I would like- I was an only child for a while. And so I'd sit in my room and I would scream, or I'd scream into my pillow or punch my bed or, you know, it was like a physical representation of what I was feeling in my body. And that's how I moved energy through my body. So now for you, your inner child is nine. Teri Hales 43:18 Nine? Lena Osborne 43:19 So at nine, there were moments in your life leading up to that age, where you felt your soul was having a human experience, you knew that you were going to have- you're going to have to be like, have your own back. And there was a lot leading up to- leading up to the age of nine that was showing you that you were eventually going to have to be out on your own. You were emotionally holding space in the home for different types of energy. And you were the peacemaker. You were the one that brought the neutralizing energy into the home. And that's something you carry with you now. And so, as you are moving through your life and your relationships and your work and everything, it's it can, you can easily get- what's the word- you can easily get, like, thrown off the rail, when things get a little bit stressful. And the reason for that is because it became a pattern for you back then that you took on the stress in your body and then you figured out a way to regulate it and and neutralize it and then bring that out into the space around you. So for you now as you experience triggers, or flooding, or stress or overwhelm, as Brene says like you feel like you're in the weeds, or you're blown right? You take it, you take it out on yourself. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that energy of taking it out on yourself is with time deteriorating not only your health on the inside, but also like you're you're beginning to build resentment in areas of your life where you know, there is no resentment to be had, it's like, there needs to be a physical representation of some sort of cleansing or purging for you every single day. Like, whether that's writing it out and burning it, or physically jumping into a body of water, like a pool, or a lake, or even just washing your hands, like giving yourself that intention, as you wash your hands- "I'm washing my hands clean of any resentment that I will build up today in my environment, because no one in my family deserves that it's not theirs, this is mine. This is this comes from my experience as a child and having to hold the stress and the overwhelm and the pain of family members. And learning how to cope with that by neutralizing that energy". Because now you know that that's not serving you as an adult, you're far beyond the space and time where that that coping skill is giving you what it needed to. It served you for a while it gave you the childhood you needed. Like you, you had a fairly decent upbringing, there wasn't like, you know, this huge traumatic experience that would make you like, not be able to show up for your kids, you know, you had many fulfilling life experiences as a child. But underneath all of that, I would say like lower T trauma, there wasn't a consistent person in your life showing up for you emotionally. And without that emotional support, and like seeing you and validating you, it was when you were nine that you finally realized, okay, like the straw that breaks the camel's back, you know, it's like, "I am a soul having a human experience, I am here, this is me having to show up for myself". And so when you now have those spaces in time, where you feel flooded, and you feel stress, overwhelm, go back to Teri at nine and give her- reparent her - give her the the love and emotional affection that she needed that she wasn't getting then. And my biggest advice to people, when I go through these sessions with them is to take the time to actually write out specific things you remember from that time in your life, like, write it down it- whether it was a good memory or a bad memory, meaning like whether it was a positive thing or something that affected you negatively, just get it out in a journal or something. And then allow your body to detach the emotion from it. So that it no longer has power over you. And that might be something you have to do daily for a while you might have to you know, every day for a month, look at those same stories and say to yourself with intention, this doesn't define who I am. You know, I am not this person. This thing happened to me, but it's not who I am. A lot of people say like, yeah, what happened for you. And I believe that in a lot of cases. But side tangent, like I had a friend who recently lost a child, and it was the second child she lost. And when people say things like "Oh, things in life happen for you". I don't believe that when it comes to the loss of a child or, you know, a loss of anyone really, any death. Like any of that, to me. It's such bullshit. And I cannot stand the message behind people saying like, things happen for a reason. That just doesn't, I don't fly with that. But when it comes to experiences you're having or people not showing up for you at certain times your life, like we all have a soul contract with one another. We're all committed to one another to help each other evolve. And I believe that we are souls traveling groups and we have lifetimes together. And that's just something that I have experienced on a spiritual level, like my soul feels that. And so being committed to the people in your life and the people you love. It's not just it's not just like happenstance, you know, you're here experiencing these people because they're reflecting back to you, your goodness, or they're reflecting back to you the shadow side that needs to evolve past that generational pattern that's teaching you or showing you that you need to live a certain way. You know? Teri Hales 49:45 I like how you frame that that- That people in your life reflect back to you- both, like both the positive both the things that, like your strengths and the things that you're doing well, and where your joy is and they also can reflect back to you like where you need to heal and where there's work to do and because that's been very true in my life for sure. Yeah. Lena Osborne 50:13 I love that. I think that goes back to the concept of comparison and people online like needing to unfollow. It's like, we showing up in our truth, reflect shadows and reflect back the parts. If you're showing up on my page and a space and time when you are not on the path, you're gonna quickly exit left, because you know, when you see someone living their truth, it's a reflection of the things you're not doing. If it if it doesn't feel good, Teri Hales 50:42 yeah, I mean, yeah, that makes so much sense. Lena Osborne 50:47 And it's okay i on literally honor people who are in the waiting pattern. Is that what it's called on the tarmac? Is it called the holding pattern? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, I honor that. I get it. I've been there. We've all we're all still there. There's lots of growth on all sides happening. So I don't want you to feel judgment from me. It's just when you see that when you experience that go inward and reflect on why is this coming up for me? Or what is this making me feel and and explore those spaces without judgment? Teri Hales 51:21 Yeah. Yeah. Getting curious with it, just allowing it to- allowing it to express itself and tell you what it needs to tell you. Lena Osborne 51:33 Did you feel like when you were a child, and again, nine keeps coming up for me, but that your accomplishments and things that you did is what gave you the validation you needed? Teri Hales 51:47 Yeah, so people pleasing, perfectionism and overachieving. Lena Osborne 51:51 Overachieving. Okay, okay. Yeah, that's what I think that's what I'm feeling. It's just this feeling of like, you working hard to be seen by the people you love by doing things. You know? Teri Hales 52:09 accomplishing all the things. Yeah. I participated in all the sports and all the dance and all the cheerleading and- Lena Osborne 52:16 wow! Teri Hales 52:17 - like in high school, I was actually just sitting down with my son who is doing marching band. And he was like, This is so busy. And I said, it is! Then he said, in high school you did marching band, right? And I said, I did and he goes, and was it this busy and I said, "it was marching band was this busy. But I didn't just do marching band. I was part of competitive choir. I was on the cheer squad. I did debate. I was part of the National Honor Society. I did like the student government. I was part of a car mechanics team that like rebuilt a new car. I was like, I was on the club's soccer team. And then I did church, and I did dance". And he was like, what? When did you sleep? How did you and I was like, I, once a month I would crash. And then I would sleep for 24 hours straight - like all through the night all through the next day and wake up and go to seminary and do it again and do it for another month. And he was like, that's not healthy. I was like, No, it's not healthy. But I did all the things and tried to excel it all the things. And it was both a numbing mechanism, so o I couldn't feel but it was also a way to get validation. Lena Osborne 53:28 Wow, wow. Yeah, the vibration that I was feeling from you is that you have worked your entire life to get back to yourself that doing things. It was something inside of you that said, if I do these many things, I can feel my center, I can feel, I feel good. I feel like like I matter. And there's worth. But there's so so much underneath all of that, that you're getting to now in your life, especially since you've left the church that you see this, like- I hope that you see because I see this- like most stunningly brave, courageous, gorgeous, like, gift that you have to be able to share your voice and show up for people and the capacity to do it seems so endless because it's so much less than what you were doing before. You know what I mean? It's like you, of course, like you are I mean you're- Do you get it? Do you get what you're doing. You're changing lives? Showing up in this podcast and creating this community for people and people who just need a voice or want to feel seen and you're the voice for them and you make them feel seen and it's just so so so good. There's so much goodness here. So much goodness here and I'm so proud of you for doing this. This work that you're doing I think it's amazing. And isn't not so much more rewarding than giving your life to all those things and getting all the accolades? Teri Hales 55:06 It is actually, it's so wonderful. And I will tell you, though, there is that nine year old part of me that pops up occasionally. And it's like, and I'll take on this project and this project and this project, and then- Lena Osborne 55:21 well, that was your shadow side, you got to, you got to remember you got to see her and recognize that that is not something that's ever going to go away. It's just something you have to integrate and know about yourself. Teri Hales 55:32 Yeah, I'm so glad you brought it up, because I'm actually, I was just telling you, before we started recording that there's like a piece of me that keeps coming up and saying, "Hey, like, listen to me. I have something to tell you. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, when October's done, like in November, we'll listen to you we'll attend to your needs. It'll be fine". That's the message I think she wants to say, because I did take on a lot of projects over the last like five to seven months. And it all wraps up this week. Lena Osborne 56:03 Yeah. So you've got one week left of hustle. Teri Hales 56:06 Yeah. So one week left of hustle. And then like that deep knowing is just like, "do the things you love. And don't take on anything else. Just do the things you're passionate about." Lena Osborne 56:21 Oh, my God, I love that. Yes, I just three snaps to that. That is just awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's really beautiful to be able to live with that knowing and to know it and to do it and to take action. And I don't know, man, there's just something so beautiful about living in a space in time where I'm in charge. Ya know? It's just so incredible and beautiful and colorful and amazing and fulfilling. I mean, not easy. No, it's never ever easy. But the hard that comes up now is so different than the hard that it was before when I was denying myself when I was betraying myself. The hard now is feeling the wounds, recognizing myself within that space, and detaching myself from any labels, obligations, expectations that other people placed upon me. You know, it's so it's work. It's not like, oh, yeah, look, here's me, I can see myself doing this thing on repeat this behavior that keeps coming up. It's like, "Oh, yay, Lina". Good. You know, it's, it's hard emotional work. And lots of tears have been shed constantly, throughout the last four years. You know, but the most beautiful hard. I would choose this hard over and over. Yes. Teri Hales 57:51 Yeah. It's really rewarding hard. Yeah. So it's a lot of work. And yet, I don't know, the rewards the like the freedom, the like expansion, like I always, you get to take up just like a little bit more room and feel good about it. Lena Osborne 58:09 Oh, my God, yes, I love that. I do give advice for people who are new to this space. or newer, if you are trying to tap into that divine feminine energy, which gives you the balance of your masculine and feminine, I always recommend movement. Movement is a big part of that because energy is everything. And so as you have these energy centers in your body, and you're lining them up, and you're freeing your body from these, like energetic calcium deposits, moving your body, whether it's dance, or running, or whatever it is, however you choose to move, that is a physical representation, of purging of energy and releasing it and letting it back, giving it back to the universe and letting it go. You know, and then and that comes naturally to a lot of people, I think it's just innate within our cellular DNA makeup, we want to move. But if you notice that you're feeling trapped energetically, and simultaneously, you feel stagnant, like you're you're sedentary, then that's a sign and, you know, signal to the body to get outside and move. And then another thing is being creative. So when you use your creative energy, and you tap into your sacral- your sacral chakra is where all of our creation comes from. It's where our passions come to life. It's where obviously like, we have babies, and we create in that way to actually create life, but within the space and the spectrum of creativity. It could be something as simple as, you know, drawing or painting or going outside and making something in your home like building something or whatever. It doesn't have to be one specific thing. It's just - and hey, while you're doing that place, play my divine feminine playlist and move your body at the same time. You know, it's like there you can, you can really move energy through your body like in this special unique way that feels good to you. But as long as you're like doing it and consistently doing it like you would drink water or go to the bathroom, like it's a regular thing in your life, you're gonna feel that lightness and that air that you're talking about Teri, where you feel like, oh, I can take up more room I can breathe, my lungs are expanding deeper and there's more blood flow and oxygen in my body. I feel lighter and freer, you know. Teri Hales 1:00:34 Yeah. Yeah. Being able to like, move things through your body movement has been a huge part of my journey as well. I started with Zumba classes, which helped me like, reclaim my sensuality. I'd become almost kind of stiff and robotic in Mormonism. And so it allowed me to, like, move in ways that I had been kind of taught were like, naughty and not okay. And then gardening does that, hiking does that, swimming does that, like all of those- just moving your body I feel like you get in tune. Like it just allows you to like really get in tune with what's going on inside of you. And and it feels good afterwards to that rush of endorphins. Lena Osborne 1:01:18 Yeah. I've been doing a lot of writing lately. I've been like actively writing. I did you know Ash Whalen. She's amazing. So I'll introduce, I'll connect you to you on Instagram. She's amazing. So she's, she's exmo and in Utah, and just has a beautiful platform and shares in such an artistic way. But she did a writing course, she has a writing course. But I did it a couple years ago, and began writing my book. And then I've just been writing. Writing has been the thing that has been the most healing to me, aside from movement, just being in that space, and reflecting and not necessarily caring about the quality of what I'm doing. But just getting it out. It feels so good. Feels good to go back with intention into certain spaces and places in time and like, pluck it from my body and put it on paper. It's like it no longer belongs to me. It's not mine. It doesn't serve me. You know, it's not going to hold me back from from living free just because it exists inside of me. It's on paper now. And it's mine, you know? Teri Hales 1:02:31 Yeah, it does. It makes it like its own entity. So I find that whenever I'm writing about thoughts or about feelings, I do a practice I call vomit journaling, which is gross. I really need to find another like name. Lena Osborne 1:02:45 Brain dump. Teri Hales 1:02:46 Yeah, brain dump. But I just allow myself to put my pen to paper and I write without worrying about grammar, if it makes sense, or any of that. And I just like, right until it feels like it's all out. Yeah, but you're right. Once it's all out, like, it's not in me anymore. It's out there. Like it's a thing that I can look at. And I can observe and sometimes I'll come back and read it later to see like, what limiting beliefs are popping up? Or what is it trying to say? Lena Osborne 1:03:11 Yeah, because the mind is what plays tricks on you. It's not who you are. Teri Hales 1:03:17 Yeah, it's like taking apart and just like sticking it there. So it gets to be like, its own little personality, its own little person. And I kind of like look at it as if I'm coaching someone like, "Okay, what is the saying, what does it want? What, you know, what is the wound? What does it need to feel better?" And it allows it to - but it's not me, it's not my identity anymore. It's just this piece that was inside of me. Lena Osborne 1:03:44 Yeah. That's beautiful. I love that. Teri Hales 1:03:48 Oooh. As we wrap up today, like, I feel like there's been so much good stuff today talking about like listening to your inner knowing, listening, like recognizing when your inner child is coming out and like getting curious about what age that inner child is. And what did that, you know, what did that child need? Because I think a lot of these wounds a lot of the things that keep us in the box really do come from earlier in our life from different times in our life when it wasn't okay to be-- or we got the message whether consciously or subconsciously that it wasn't okay to be a fully expressed version of ourselves. That it's it's okay to go back to that and say, What do you need? Like, what do you need to feel safe? How can I hold you? How can I help you feel loved and accepted? And I think the more we do that work with ourselves, the more we arrive at that place you were talking about where we're able to recognize that other people who don't love us or don't see us the way- in a way that's like, accurate or a way that really reflects who we are - that we're allowed, like, it allows us to let a lot of that laid off of us because we're rooted and anchored into knowing and loving ourselves. Is there anything else you would like to tell people who are listening as they're striving to really anchor into that that feeling of like self acceptance? Is there anything else you'd like to say, as we wrap up this session? Lena Osborne 1:05:22 I would say the biggest piece of advice I would give to anyone going through this, whether you're like newly out of the church, or you're just trying to become a better human, is, find yourself back home. Every single day, come back home to the breath. Give yourself time to fill the lungs, to completely like exhale. And just give your body time to be in itself. Find the stillness, be here now present in the moment, whether it's three minutes, 10 minutes, three hours, whatever you have time for. This is something that I do for myself every day is coming home to myself. It's the only way to live with intention, and to enjoy more minutes of your day. Teri Hales 1:06:18 That's powerful. It sounds so simple. And it's so powerful. Lena Osborne 1:06:22 It is so powerful. Yeah, it really is. Teri Hales 1:06:27 Thank you so much. This has been- it really was just the the ability to bask in your energy today. Just it felt like I don't know, like a spirit bath a little bit like just, Lena Osborne 1:06:39 Oh, I love that. Thank you. I love your energy as well. Teri, you have so so many - I mean, I'm not just saying this because you um, you're on your podcast - but your positivity and the energy you put out into the world is a gift to everyone that listens to you. Teri Hales 1:06:56 Thank you so much. That means a lot to me. Thank you. Lena Osborne 1:07:00 Yeah, for sure. Teri Hales 1:07:01 Where can people find you so that they can follow you and get to feel this energy all the time? Lena Osborne 1:07:06 Oh, you're so sweet. So I'm @BecomingLena on Instagram, and Sal's ComingOutCoach, you can always find me there too. We're always making out. You guys, when you find your sexuality at 37 you go hard. Um, and then yeah, we have we have a website SallyandLena.com And then of course, look for season two of "Mormon No More". Teri Hales 1:07:30 Yeah, I'm so excited. Thank you so much for joining us. Lena Osborne 1:07:34 Oh, thank you, Teri. Teri Hales 1:07:36 You're the best. Go follow her right now and I will see you all next Sunday. Transcribed by https://otter.ai