Teri Hales  0:15  
Welcome to the Emancipate Your Mind Podcast. I'm your host, certified religious transition and trauma recovery coach, Teri Hales. I help people step out of the shadows of religious fear and shame and embrace their authentic selves with love and empathy. If you're ready to throw off the shackles of learned binary thinking, and explore a more nuanced approach to life, this is your playground

Hello everyone, welcome back to the emancipate your mind podcast. I am thrilled today because I get to talk again with Terina Maldonado. And you have heard her speak before and she's a powerful speaker. She's a survivor in every sense of the word. She's empowered with resilience, empathy, and determination by living through child abuse, sexual assault, and leaving a high demand religion. As a coach and a speaker Terina now helps others confidently claim their voice and live an authentic life full of purpose in one on one and corporate settings, dubbed by faith wire news, the mom who took on Hollywood in one and if you want to know that story, go back and listen to her other podcast from last year. Her superpower is her unapologetic vulnerability Terina has been featured by dozens of national and international media outlets for her harrowing story and powerful message including you guys listen to this, the New York Times CNN, ABC, The Guardian Vanity Fair Fox and the Washington Post. I want to be her when I grow up. Welcome Terina Maldonado.

Unknown Speaker  2:00  
Thank you, Teri. It's so great to be with you.

Teri Hales  2:03  
I always love getting to talk with you. It's it's so fun and I'm so glad I'm not talking to myself today. Thank you for being here with me.

Unknown Speaker  2:11  
You're welcome. I was so excited to join you on this topic, because I feel like it's one that we're gonna have like a fabulous conversation around.

Teri Hales  2:19  
I do too, especially because this is like your wheelhouse. This is your kind of area of expertise. So I was telling you that the last couple of weeks, we've been talking about patriarchy and Christianity. And last week, we talked about why those of us who identify as women or who were socialized as children as traditional women, why we often struggle like I think they've shown that the percentage is in some studies as high as like 65, or 70% of us struggle to speak up. And they found that even when we're the expert in the room, that 45% of us still struggle to speak up. Like even if we are the expert in a roomful of predominantly men, we will struggle to speak up and say what we need to say. And you have a lot of thoughts on this. So I'm just going to let you just go ahead and hop right in on why you think that is and what your experiences.

Unknown Speaker  3:17  
Yeah, absolutely. Like you said, there's been so many studies that have just highlighted what a problem this is. And it really is a problem in many facets of our life. When we talk in a business setting, like we were talking about, there's been a study that showed that when an employee stays silent, instead of speaking up, it can cost a company up to $7,500. For every time that that happens within their company. When that happens within relationships, you lose the opportunity for real, authentic, close, vulnerable relationships, because you're not showing up as who you are. You're holding in and wearing a mask of who you think the person wants to see. So the costs are great, and they are varied and it can affect every aspect of our lives, as I'm sure that you and our listeners have all experienced.

Teri Hales  4:13  
Yeah, if we've come from high demand religion, especially I think all of us know what it feels like to self silence, at least to some degree. And I think we all know like the anxiety that that produces, there's a certain amount of anxiety of there's something inside of me that I can't tell you and I can't reveal to you and I hope nobody finds out. It's kind of that secret that I don't want anyone to see behind the mask.

Unknown Speaker  4:38  
Absolutely. And I think it can also lead to a little bit of self gaslighting. Like if you can't speak your truth then you have to make that fit and so then you start to gaslight yourself on why what you experienced or what you kind of feel your intuition nudging you to say it doesn't really matter. Yeah,

Teri Hales  4:56  
yeah, you're like, No, no, no, it's just me. It's fine. Like it's I'll work with me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if we find ourselves in this position, and like we've established, I think most of the people who are listening to this podcast have experienced this at some point or another and may still be experiencing this. I know, I still experience this from time to time. How do we start reclaiming our voice? How do we start using it? How do we get over that fear that can sometimes be really crippling of, you know, even beginning to use it for the first time.

Unknown Speaker  5:32  
So I think people are sometimes surprised when I use this as the first step to vocal empowerment. But, and I know you've talked about this before, we don't have to dive into it. But I really think that self care and self love are those first steps. Because you really have to know deeply within yourself that who you are, is good enough, and what you have to say, and your experiences matter. So that's the first step is to work on that. But then once we're kind of doing better in those areas, I would say it's understanding that there is going to be a physiological reaction when you start to use your voice when you speak up. So an example I like to share about this. And I like to preface this by saying, we're not judging my husband harshly because we are both evolving humans. And this was, you know, he's grown since then. So just saying that. But a little bit earlier in our marriage, when I started to learn about boundaries more, and I started to want to kind of create a little bit healthier relationship for him. And I, I decided I was not comfortable with him yelling at me, which wasn't something that happened frequently, but it would happen. And in the past, when it had happened, I would just silently see the or felt like I deserved it, whatever those things are. But in this instance, we were on the phone, which I think made it a little bit easier, because there wasn't that immediate, face to face presence. And I had to call and tell him about something where I had dropped the ball, like I was in the wrong, I knew that I knew that what I was communicating was going to be disappointing and upsetting. And so I shared that with him. And then he started yelling, and immediately my body was reacting, I was sweating. I had knots in my stomach, like I physiologically felt the fear and the discomfort. But I still said to him, I understand that you're upset, and you're totally have every right to be. But I'm not okay with you yelling at me, I think I'll probably be better if we continue this conversation when you've gotten home. And then we can talk about it with a little bit more level heads. And he was just like, silent for a second because this was new, you know, me communicating. This boundary means using my voice and speaking up. And then he was like, Okay, fine. Right, right? And I hung up the phone, and I just like, felt like crying. Yeah, and, and that was the physiological response. And sometimes when we have had those types of physiological responses, it's been because we've been in situations that are unsafe. And so even though I was totally safe, I was not doing anything wrong, what I was doing was actually helping us to create a healthier relationship, I still experienced feelings, physiologically that were very similar to what I would experience when my dad was yelling when I was a child. And that wasn't a safe situation. So to understand that, you're going to have a physiological reaction. And sometimes it's going to be like mine, where it's like, your whole body is like sweating and in knots, and you get out of that situation, and you're still like processing that is really important to go into with that knowledge. Because then when that happens, you're not like, I need to stop, this isn't safe. I'm, I'm doing something wrong, because I'm feeling this way. You know, this is part of the experience for two reasons. One, you're doing something new. And two, you're likely triggering a physiological response from a trauma response because you've been in a similar situation, but you're now rewriting the narrative where you're taking power in your voice.

Teri Hales  9:42  
I am so glad you brought that up, because I think you're absolutely right. Even as you've been talking, I'm revisiting times in the past where it's been hard for me to speak up. And I think all of us if we're having a hard time speaking up, it's because we have experienced something in the past that has felt traumatic Whether it's been big T or little T trauma, it you know, it could be the kid, you know, in third grade that made fun of us whenever we stuttered when we were trying to speak in class or given an answer. It could be, you know, something like a parent yelling at us, it could be something like, you know, getting turned down for an interview because we botched a job interview or something like we have something that that voicelessness is tied to something that makes it feel dangerous, or like fearful or anxiety ridden, or even shameful to speak up. And I'm so glad you brought that up because I remember when I first started trying to speak out loud, yeah, I felt like maybe I'm doing something wrong, because I started when I was still at church. And so feeling like, I wouldn't be feeling this way if this was the right thing to do. But really what was going on was I was working against long term programming, that it was not okay to use your voice.

Unknown Speaker  11:05  
Right. And many of us have been taught that, quote-unquote, bad feelings. negative feelings are from Satan. And so then if you're stepping into your voice and feeling these feelings, then what does that mean? And so it's important to note that feelings are just feelings. And yes, they can be messengers, but they can also be messengers of this is something new, that needs to be changed. And so there, if you do identify a specific incident that is tied to being held back, you can rewrite that story for yourself. And you can reenact that situation in a way that leads you feeling empowered. So say, for instance, that situation with my husband, I hadn't spoken up, but here I am in a situation where I'm wanting to, but I know that that failure to speak up and advocate for myself, is creating feelings of hesitancy and is holding me back from my ability to speak up, what I can do is I can put myself in that situation, I can remember that I was standing in the kitchen, I can remember that my hands were still a little damp, because I had stopped doing the dishes. And I can take some deep breaths and really try and put myself in the emotion of that. And I can even exaggerate a little bit. And instead of playing it out the way that I did in real life, I could say, "No, you need to stop right now. It is not okay for you to yell at me, I am not a child, I am not your subordinate, I am a human being and I am your wife, you need to treat me with love and respect. And that does not include yelling", and you feel those feelings as they come up. You feel that adrenaline coming into your system, you say whatever you wish you would have said. And then you take a deep breath. And you literally shake your body, because that's gonna help you release that adrenaline that's going to help you release all the emotions from that situation. And you've just rewritten that situation, in your body and in your mind. And that can help you to kind of rewrite that story and empower you then to feel more comfortable using your voice when you're in a situation similar to this one that wrote that story for you that I'm not brave enough. I'm not strong enough. I'm not valuable enough.

Teri Hales  13:30  
Oh, I love this idea. And I already know I'm gonna have listeners who are going to write me and say, So how exactly do I do that? Do I do it out loud? Do I do it in my head? Do I journal it? Is there a more effective way to go about this process of rewriting our stories and then shaking our body afterward? What would you say to that?

Unknown Speaker  13:51  
So I would say it depends on you individually. If verbally, physically reenacting this is going to be super triggering for you, then that's not the safe way for you to do it. And start with journaling. Start with it in your mind. But the most powerful way to do it is going to be to call it in that physical response. And reenact that to roleplay that situation with yourself with your mind's eye, remembering that situation, but also take into consideration where you are in your own emotional strength and healing and do what's safest for you.

Teri Hales  14:32  
Thank you so much for saying that and reminding people to listen to what feels the safest and the best for them. I know that I had an experience with a therapist where there were a lot of things I couldn't say to a parent growing up and as a child had learned a lot of silencing, and they stood in for my parent and I got to say the things that I wanted to say that I'd always wanted to say that I think if I hadn't had a chance to do this with a therapist I would probably still want to say, and ways I wanted to advocate for myself. But they stood in that place and just getting to say them to someone who was pretending to be my parent really released a lot of that I really don't need to say it anymore. Because the time has come and gone. And I just got to say, everything teenage me wanted to say, and it was super freeing. So love that you brought that out.

Unknown Speaker  15:26  
Absolutely. It can be a really powerful experience.

Teri Hales  15:29  
It can it was I remember just crying and like shaking, like you said, and just feeling like, oh, okay, I got that out. It's almost like a huge, heavy piece of furniture that I couldn't move by myself. And then somebody helped me. Like, take it down the flight of stairs and like put it on the curb. So yeah.

Unknown Speaker  15:49  
Beautiful analogy, the ugly Ottoman

Teri Hales  15:52  
outside, please. Yes, like, let's get it out the door. And it did sit there for a little bit. I think there were a couple times I like peeked out and was like, it's, it's still there. But over time, it just kind of someone took it and went away. Yeah. Oh, okay. So the first thing we start with is self love. And we learn that we're worthy. And the second thing we do is we begin, I guess, changing the narrative in our head. And we can go back and change some of those stories, what do we do next?

Unknown Speaker  16:26  
I think it's really important to sit with the fact that there are going to be people who don't like what you have to say,

Teri Hales  16:34  
Okay, let's talk about this. ,

Unknown Speaker  16:37  
Right because one of the biggest things that keeps us quiet is fear. And one of those big fears is that somebody's not going to like me, if I say this, guess what that's going to happen. You know, there's nearly 9 billion people in the world, it's literally impossible for everybody to like you. And it's impossible for everybody that you know, to like everything that you have to say in every opinion that you have. But that doesn't mean that your opinions that your values that your experiences are wrong, it just means that where they're coming from, that doesn't align with them. And that's okay. And that's beautiful. That's what adds to the diversity of humanity. But it's also really hard to confront and experience. And so I think if you can sit with that knowledge, and that fact that there are going to be people that are going to hear what you have to say, and they're not going to like it, and just sit with that for a minute. It can help you feel more courageous and more empowered to start to speak up. And I like to invite my clients when doing this to kind of go through the five why's. So if you're specifically worried about speaking up to a spouse, or a parent about a specific topic, ask yourself why five times, and typically, by time you get to the fifth why you're gonna get to the root of what that is. And maybe that is then the experience that you need to replay. And like take your power back on. But it can be really empowering to just kind of sit with this, like, there's people who are not going to like what I have to say. And when you've already cultivated that self love and that self care, you're going to know that that's okay. Because that doesn't determine your value, or your worth, or your worthiness of love and acceptance and belonging, because that's inherent to you being human. Yeah. And so I think that that can really help help you feel empowered to kind of walk through that a little bit in your brain, like, somebody is not going to like what I have to say. And to really get to a space where you're like, that's going to be okay. Does that mean that it's going to be easy? Does it mean that it's going to be fun and pleasant when somebody disagrees with you, or really pushes back and doesn't like what you have to say? Absolutely not. So not to invalidate or give this expectation that having this realization and this acceptance that people aren't gonna like you is gonna make it easy when that happens. But it does make it a little bit easier. And it does empower you to be able to claim your voice a little bit when you realize that one of the reasons why we fear speaking out is because we've been programmed to be liked. We've been programmed to be perfect. We've been programmed to fall in line. And so when we start to break those rules, people aren't gonna like it. But that's okay.

Teri Hales  19:41  
Yeah, well, and you bring up some really interesting points here, which is, I think many of us do have a deep fear that when we peel that onion, which is what I call those five whys, which is you know, starting with the outside layer and then like asking why and peeling down to the next layer and continuing to peel the onion, I think many of us really have like a fear of abandonment, or a fear of being alone. And so I'm so glad you talked about starting with the self love piece. Because as we build, as we build that we're able to tolerate and kind of push back, I think on some of those fears a little bit. But when we get to that fear of abandonment, I find that it's really helpful to make a plan with fear, because fear is trying to keep us safe, it's trying to help us experience the least amount of harm possible. So realizing there are going to be some people that don't like what I have to say, What will I do, when that happens? And there's, I found that there were a variety of things. When I started this podcast, that was one of my big fears is, I'm going to say things that people don't like. And I'm going to say them very publicly. And I'm sure people are going to comment, and they do they do. So what am I gonna do? I remember going through different scenarios that I was the most afraid of, like, what am I going to do if it's just a really, really, really mean stranger? And I remember being like, it doesn't matter. They don't know me. So whatever they're railing against is not me. It's whatever's going on inside of them. And I was like, what if it's somebody I'm really close to? And realizing like, Okay, well, it depends on how they're disagreeing with me if they're disagreeing with me in a way that's very respectful of my humanity. And it's just like, This is my point of view. And I don't agree with you, and I don't like what you're saying, I can have a conversation with that. But if it's really dehumanizing, like we're going to be having a different conversation, setting some serious boundaries, right? Because disagreeing with me is fine treating me like I'm not human is not okay. So like, let's have a conversation about that. So, kind of thinking through like, what am I actually afraid of, like you said, peeling that that onion, and asking those five why's allowed me to figure out the different scenarios I was really afraid of, and then kind of sort them and decide what I would do and really, some of those actually weren't fears at all. If a stranger has some really mean things to say to me, it does not matter. But if you know someone close to me, that was more of a fear. And how would I handle that and having a plan kind of allowed my nervous system to relax and be like, okay, so if that happens, we know what to do.

Unknown Speaker  22:24  
Absolutely, yeah. I sometimes recommend to clients to worst-case-scenario it and not for people who maybe already have a tendency towards high anxiety or ruminating, spiraling thoughts. Although sometimes it has been helpful in those situations. But to really look at it like, worst case scenario, what happens? And always, even when you get to that worst case scenario, if you've built a secure relationship with yourself, you know, it'll be hard, but it'll be okay. So that's kind of part of that planning component, too, is like, well, what's the worst that could happen? And really, a lot of times when you look at it, it's not as bad as it feels like when you really logistically look at what's the worst that's going to happen. If I step up, and I say, you know, I'm really uncomfortable with this, or this has been my experience. And it's kind of contradictory to what you have thought and what you believed. But this is, this is actually an experience that I have had. And you find out maybe it's not quite as bad as I thought when I wasn't fully thinking, when I was worrying and ruminating.

Teri Hales  23:38  
Yeah, it is funny how our fears do that when we're just like thinking and ruminating. And it's, we're in that fight or flight place. And so we're not critically thinking about it. It's just there and it feels scary. But we haven't really looked at it. It's like we're looking at it from our peripheral vision, and it looks big and scary and shadowy. And so if we can sit with it, and really allow ourselves to confront it, and to plan with it and listen to it, it's like we get to look at it, you know, front on and actually it's a little kid with a a monster mask on. And we're like, oh, okay, you've looked scary over there from my my side vision. But when I look at you straight on, you're not as scary as I thought you were.

Unknown Speaker  24:23  
Absolutely, yes. Yeah.

Teri Hales  24:27  
Oh, okay. This is all such great stuff. Because I think so many of us, we get wrapped up in those fears that we don't allow ourselves to really slow down, which I think is really important to slow down the process and to give ourselves time to feel through things and to consciously think through things and plan with them. What is your process to do that?

Unknown Speaker  24:54  
I think a lot of the things that we've talked about kind of figuring out Why I want to speak up about something is important. Because there's been times when I've wanted to say something. And then I think about why do I want to say something in this particular situation and environment? And is it going to be productive, because there's times when it's not going to be productive. And then I may choose not to say anything in that moment. But when I feel like it's going to be productive, and helping me to feel more seen and heard, it's going to be productive in helping relationships move forward, it's gonna be more productive and communicating ideas and my values that are most important to me, then I step forward with that. And so like figuring out whether it's worth it or not,  making sure that you're in a safe space to do that. And that can mean psychologically safe, as well as physically safe. And then figuring out what do I really want to communicate? Like, do I really want to tell them that they're wrong? Or is it more important that I communicate that the way that they're speaking is not like speaking to me is not something that I'm comfortable with, and not something that I'm willing to accept? Because it's degrading, and it's minimizing and it's gaslighting? Am I trying to say something because I want to correct them, or because I want them to know, this is how I choose to be treated. And this is how I accept communication to me. So figuring out the why behind what you want to communicate, and what you truly want to communicate, can be really helpful. And so those are some important questions that you can kind of sit with, like, Is this safe? Is this really important to me? And what am I truly wanting to communicate?

Teri Hales  26:54  
I think that that's really powerful. Because I can look back at myself, particularly at the beginning of religious transition. And just, I think, because we put, I put a cork in my voice for a long time, and it's almost like once I uncorked my voice, like, everything came out unfiltered, and it sprayed everywhere, and it damaged relationships, where I probably could have said, or communicated things in a way that helped them feel safe, too, because I ended up making several people that I love feel unsafe, because I just said, whatever, however, and didn't really stop to think about what did I want to communicate and why which I think are really, really important. Now, I'm going to ask you a question. I have at least a person every week, say, How do I speak up and tell like, how do I correct the stories that people have in their head about me? Like, what can I say to them? And I can see by your face you already like you're gonna have something great to say, and I have a feeling it's going to be something similar to what I would say, but many people and I know I was right there in those shoes, you know, almost six years ago, of how do I correct the stories for other people? How do I speak up? How do I like set the record straight? Because I think that's one of the times when we really want to use our voice, sometimes for the first time after we leave high demand religion. So what would you say to that?

Unknown Speaker  28:29  
I would say, take a beat and look at the why. And why is it just because you care about what they think of you? Because if that's the case, does it really matter that much. Because there is absolutely no way that you can guarantee that you're going to change somebody else's opinion in view of you that just can't be done that's developed in their own brain, from so many different factors a lot, including their own personal experiences. And you may have triggered something in them that makes their view of you unmovable, and that's a possibility. And so, really, like, I just feel like that's a losing battle. And the best way to do that is just by living authentically, and showing people who you truly are, and giving them evidence of you being a good person. And if that doesn't help them to see for who they are and help change that narrative, then it might not happen. And again, this depends on the level of relationship. Like if you're talking about your parents who now think that you are being controlled by Satan, and you've been deceived, you know, like you might want to have some important conversations to try and correct that. And those you want to do very, very mindfully and very lovingly and from a place of all only trying to help them to know you better, not you trying to correct them. And with lots of understanding for where they're seeing you from. So you're not, I mean, there may be a lot of anger and hurt and rejection that you feel at the viewpoint that they now have a view, you're gonna have to try and set that aside for a second. And know that what you really need to address is that you want to move this relationship forward, and you want to continue it. And so what are going to be the most important things to communicate to do that? Are there things that maybe so for example, my religious, I mean, my political views have also changed as my religious views have changed. And my mom was here, and she started talking about some political things. And my kids were there. And I really didn't want them hearing that. And so what I said to her in that moment was, you know, what, we have very different opinions about this now, and I value our relationship more than I value what either of us think about this. So it might be better for us just to not talk about it. And then we change the topic. So you can see like, doesn't matter if you guys align on your religious views doesn't matter if you align on some social issues, or doesn't matter more that you're able to find your common threads that you still find where your values align, or your experiences overlap, and that you can take those and move forward with those. And so that's going to want to be the focus of trying to change somebody's narrative, because they might be afraid for you just as you're hurt by them. And so you're going to try and repair this relationship by finding the things that you have in common and focusing on those and moving forward. But when it comes to changing somebody's perspective of you, that really is, in a lot of ways, a losing battle. And so you just have to know that regardless of what anybody thinks of you, the story that they tell themselves is exactly that. It's a story. And you know, who you are, you know what your values are, and you know that your worth is not contingent upon them, seeing you as a good person. Hmm,

Teri Hales  32:24  
yeah. Kevin has a saying that no one ever sees us. Clearly, they always see us through the lens of their own lived experience. And so, you know, someone might see us maybe a little more like we are because they've taken the time to, like, get to know us and be curious. And they ask curiosity questions, usually, because they're okay with themselves. Like, we typically can't tolerate curiosity for someone else, and tolerate whatever might come up, if we haven't also started practicing that with ourselves. But he said, even then, he was like, even as well, as I know, you. I know you. Through my lived experience, as Kevin with you, he was like, I can't fully understand what's going on inside of your head. He was like, so even the way I see you, whether it's praising you, or whether it's being frustrated with you is through my own bias and lived experience, even though I probably have had more lived experience with you than anyone else on the planet. And I'm like, that's true. So yeah, I loved that idea, though, that even the people who love us the most and want the best for us, still are seeing us through the lens of their lived experience and their their own stuff.

Unknown Speaker  33:45  
Yeah. And so that's where that foundation of self worth self love comes into play. Because it can be hurtful. And it can be really disappointing and sad. But when you have that foundation there, you're able to navigate that you're able to survive that. Whereas if your worth is attached to somebody else's love that's hard to survive when they're pulling their love back because they no longer agree with your life decisions.

Teri Hales  34:17  
Yeah. And I think that's what most of us are chasing after when we want to correct that narrative is we want that love that validation. We want that back. Because a lot of us, I think we're raised to be people pleasers and to get our internal word from external validation. Do you have anything you want to say about people pleasing?

Unknown Speaker  34:37  
I think that people pleasing causes us to communicate in a variety of different ways. And a lot of times those are ways that are authentic to who we are. And I think this happens for a few different reasons. We're afraid of somebody seeing us or who we are, which is then rooted in that fear of rejection. and abandonment and not being accepted for who we are. Or we want to appear a certain way. So that people will like us because we think that's what they want us to be, where we want to manipulate a situation, which we're all human and guilty of this at times, like, maybe if I say or behave this way, then I'll get this outcome. And so if you can kind of look at are these things that I'm putting on and trying to make people happy. And yeah, I just people pleasing is such a big one, because this is also part of it, like we like our lizard brain, our brain that we have carried with us through all of evolution that has these programmings, or helping us to literally stay alive, one of that plays into people pleasing, because way, way, way, way, way back, you literally would die. If you were rejected by your tribe, or your family, like you couldn't, you could not survive on your own, you needed that group of people to survive to write protection to provide food to help with shelter, like you literally would die without that. And so there is a part of our lizard brain that still feels that fear, in a way almost to the point of I'm going to die. If my friends don't like me anymore. Yeah, well, we live in the year 2022, you're not going to die, you're still going to be safe, you're still going to be able to get food. And we're connected with a lot more people, you can find new people to love and support you. But it is very valid, that you feel that way. Because our brains are trying to keep us alive. And part of that is by making sure that the people that used to be essential to keep us alive, like us. So I think just acknowledging that it's okay that I feel this way, even if it might be a little ridiculous. But this is just my primal brain trying to keep me alive. And you can even sometimes I, I do this with my brain, I'll be like, thank you so much for trying to protect me, I am safe, and I am in control now. So we're just going to go ahead and let that go. Because it's much more kinder than like beating yourself up over the fact that you're really worried about whether your neighbor is going to like you, or whether the person who went to church with you before is still going to like you, it's much kinder to say, thank you for trying to protect me, I appreciate that efforts, we're gonna go ahead and just let that go. Because I am safe, and I am in control. And move forward rather than trying to beat yourself up over this thought that you're having that you want people to like you like, this is just part of our human experience, to want to be liked and to want to be connected and involved with people. And so there's there should never be any self shaming that happens when you feel that. But what you can do is instead acknowledge where that's coming from. Maybe show yourself a little love when there's a little extra fear or anxiety there. And then let your Higher Self your greater knowledge, your your presence right now take over and really step in with that. That it's just okay. If somebody doesn't like me, it's okay. And I can make decisions that are good for me. Even if I know that, that's going to cause other people to not like me. Yeah,

Teri Hales  38:31  
I love the idea of being kind and compassionate to all of the things that come up inside of ourselves. Because all of them are trying to serve a purpose and keep us alive and safe. And to experience the least amount of hurt possible. So Right.

Unknown Speaker  38:50  
And when we can bring kindness, compassion and curiosity in, do looking into why am I so worried about speaking up? Or why is there so much fear or anxiety or sadness when I think about seeking these things, that's going to help us to grow and to really look deeper into who we are and what's making us work. Versus if we bring in shaming ourselves. All that's gonna do is make the situation worse. I tell my clients all the time, nobody has ever shamed themselves into being a better person.

Teri Hales  39:22  
Nope. Well, and what I think of is we started the very first step you said was to build a relationship of trust and love and respect with ourselves that that's where we start from. And if we're beating ourselves with this shame stake, we're not going to feel safe with ourselves. So we're not going to feel safe with other people. And it's we're going to keep people pleasing. We're going to keep perpetuating that problem, because what allows us I feel like in many ways to venture to speak our truth is knowing that regardless, I'm still safe with me. Like I still like me And I'll still be here for me, it'll be okay. If I stick my foot in my mouth. If I say something that I later regret, like, I've still got my back. It'll be alright. I'll work through it.

Unknown Speaker  40:10  
Yeah, I think another component to that, you just said, if I say something that I shouldn't have. Another fear that we have is maybe that we're going to cause harm. I know that as I've stepped into the space of being a little bit more vocal around my ally ship, for marginalized people. There, there is fear that I might, from my space of privilege, say something that unintentionally causes harm. But I also know that my intentions are good, and that I am capable of taking accountability and responsibility for anything that may cause harm. And this is something that I practice, even in my own home, which I will say your own home is going to be your perfect playground for practicing your vocal empowerment. Start with the people who are closest to you and who love you the most, because they are going to give you the most grace. So with my children, I cause harm. I'm so imperfect, and I'm with them all the time. It's only natural. And I also have learned to say I am so sorry that I yelled at you. I have been really overstimulated. I've been stressed. And instead of seeing that and stepping away from the situation, and taking a moment to regulate myself and get more centered and calm, I yelled at you. And that's not okay, you deserve better than that. And so I'm really sorry. And I'll try and do better in the future. I just took accountability, and my kids are like, it's okay, Mom, I love you. Still, you're the best, because they're kids. But that gives me time to practice taking accountability when I have caused harm. And it gives me time to practice doing better. And this can be the perfect place to practice speaking up. If your kids are consistently leaving their dishes on the table after dinner, and you are silently seething. Every time you're cleaning up after your entire family, instead of speaking up, take your voice back. And in a loving way at dinner, say, you know, I noticed something about myself. When I am cleaning up after dinner, and I'm picking up after all of you, it makes me feel really bad. It gives me feelings that I don't really like. And it also takes away my time from being with you guys. And so what I would really like to do is make it so that I feel better in the evenings. And that we have more time together as a family. So I would like to ask you guys to please make sure you take your dishes to the table after dinner, this is going to help me so much. And I would love for that to be something that we can work on together. Can you guys maybe help me be accountable for that and help me remember, like, however you want to word it, but just take that opportunity in this very low risk situation to use your voice, right? It's very low risk to say, hey, I need y'all to help me get the dishes to the table. Or you say, Hey, I've completely transitioned out of the faith that I was raised in my entire life.

Teri Hales  43:22  
Yeah, taking those small steps forward and realizing I can use my voice with my kids because I think many of us even swallow the words we have to say until we reach our boiling point, at least that was me many years ago was to like Swallow, swallow swallow, just keep doing what I thought was expected of me to be like the perfect mom, perfectionism and people pleasing. They're so closely tied together. And then I would reach like my breaking point and then I'd explode. And then I'd apologize profusely. And then we'd repeat, right? Like it's like a vent the pressure and then we'd repeat. And it has been really empowering not just for me, but for my kids to be able to speak and say, this is bothering me. And this is how I feel about it. Can we make a plan together to like fix this problem? Because what we're doing right now isn't working for me. And it's making me feel frustrated, angry, resentful, whatever. It's been really cool. Because I've watched them model that as well and come back and say, I don't like this. Can we work together to find a plan that works for both of us because the way we're doing it right now really frustrates me. My son just came to me and he was like, you always pick me up 15 minutes after school is out. And that's really frustrating me because I want to get home quicker so I can have a snack and I was like that is a good point. I was like I've been trying to avoid the traffic, but maybe we can find a way to meet in the middle and we came up with a great solution that works for both of us. So I get to avoid the traffic he gets to be picked up on time. And yeah, I don't have to be stuck in a traffic jam. Right.

Unknown Speaker  45:01  
And when we start to practice these at home, absolutely starts to teach our children so that they don't have to go through all of this at 40 years old learning to reprogram things, they just get to know how to communicate in a healthy way. And so it can even be helpful to maybe like the next night, say, Guys, I just have to share with you. Like, that was a really big thing for me to say that I don't like having to clean up all the dishes, because normally, I've just kept that to myself and been angry. But it felt really good to say that out loud. So thank you guys for letting me express that like, then you're normalizing the challenging part of speaking up to you're normalizing that it can be hard even for mom to say what she wants, but it's still okay. And mom still said that.

Teri Hales  45:46  
Yeah. And that mom's human. And she has needs to because that was one of the things one of my younger kids said he was like, Oh, I didn't know you had needs.

Unknown Speaker  46:02  
I just you're just like super woman.

Teri Hales  46:06  
But I think there is kind of this idea that like, there are certain things women just do and it's not work. It's just like, we're just living. And I think women are very aware that that is not just living that that's actually work too. So yeah, even like telling my kids that I have needs for quiet like there are times where I'm like, I'm a little emotionally overwhelmed. I'm going to be in my room for the next 15 minutes. Don't knock unless like someone's hurt or their defier, okay, I just need to like be alone with my thoughts and like, center myself, and they'll come back out. And letting them know that that's okay for me to go and take a break and have some time to myself just to think and be in the quiet and

Unknown Speaker  46:51  
Absolutely. love that so much. Yeah,

Teri Hales  46:55  
I've heard them saying that to one another to my oldest is an introvert loves the quiet. And I've heard him say, I've listened to you for 30 minutes now. But now I need to not listen to you anymore for at least 30 minutes. So I'm going to be in my room with my Legos. My door is going to be closed, don't knock. Unless like you've forgotten something in my room. But if you come to get something in my room, don't talk to me. I need 30 minutes of no talking.

Unknown Speaker  47:23  
So those are some beautiful communication and boundaries skills that your children have learned. So proud of you. I'm so

Teri Hales  47:32  
I'm so proud of me to look at us learning all these new skills. So we have a few more minutes before the end of the episode. You brought up something really interesting when we were talking about preparing for this episode, and I'm so curious what it is because I've never heard it before you were talking about communication archetypes. What is that?

Unknown Speaker  47:52  
Who Yes, and you kind of touched on this a little bit. So in the vocal empowerment system that I'm certified to facilitate which is step by step into your Moxie speak up in influence. We teach about three different communication archetypes. So there are bunny dragon and cheetah. I think often as women, we are taught that we need to be Bunnies. Bunnies are submissive bunnies are small bunnies are meek bunnies are quiet. Does this sound like what we thought that we were supposed to be? Oh yeah. And then there's the dragon. The dragon is hard. The dragon is harsh. The dragon is loud, the dragon is big, the dragon can be scary. And neither of those is going to be most effective. I think a lot of times we talk about Mama Bear. And that's kind of that dragon energy. But what we really want to cultivate is cheetah energy. And so I don't know if you know very much about cheetahs. But cheetahs in the wild are pretty amazing creatures. They like to rest from a perching place where they can see what's going on around them. So they like to be observers. And they rest and rejuvenate themselves. And then when there is a moment where action is needed, they are fast. They're there when the they're needed. They get right there, they take care of it. And then they go back to resting again. So these cheetahs, they care for themselves. They observe they don't step in when it's not needed. But when they're needed, they're there in a clear, quick way. And so when we relate this to our communication, being a cheetah means being an observer. It means taking that time to ask those questions that we talked about, like, is this important? Why is this important? What do I need to communicate? It means that we don't show up in bunny Energy questioning ourselves. A lot of women think that they're speaking up, but they lead with? Well, in my opinion. So I think instead of just clearly saying, like you were talking about these women experts will be in the room and still not speak up. And a lot of times, even when they do women are guilty of minimizing their own their own expertise and their own genius with phrases such as, oh, I think or maybe, or is it okay, if I share instead of just confidently stepping in and saying, you know, in these situations, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it means that we don't show up in the dragon who's coming in saying, You know what, you have to listen to me right now, I am going to take up all the space in the room. And I'm going to make sure that everybody hears what I have to say, I'm going to make sure that everybody agrees and I'm going to make sure that I get my way only the cheetah is much more confidence, that cheetah is more sure. The cheetah is more when when energy where the dragon is very, like, I need to be heard. And I need everybody to like me and I need everything to be right. Whereas the cheetah can come into those type of situations and realize that there can be compromise that we can disagree as long as we do it respectfully, and with good, healthy boundaries involved. And so stepping into that citta energy is stepping into this centered presence that's going to communicate what is most important in a way that is respectful, not only to others, but also to yourself, your own experience and your own expertise.

Teri Hales  51:47  
I love that. You can't see it because my chairs in the way but this picture right there is a cheetah so I bought it right after reading Glennon Doyle's untamed Yes. And I just like, this has become a symbol for me the cheetah, not just because of her book, but I have been learning more about cheetahs, and they are incredible creatures, and they are like, balanced is the word that comes to mind for me. So hard work, very balance. Yeah, hard working, but willing to rest. They're social creatures, but they also can be found alone in the wild. So they kind of do both. Like they're, they're really cool creatures. Um, I like what you said about the energy of the cheetah is about being respectful to others and ourselves simultaneously. Because I feel like for the last several weeks, we've been talking about masculine and feminine energy, and about like the expectations and stereotypes for masculine and feminine. And I feel like the bunny energy really does kind of encapsulate that stereotype for feminine energy. And the dragon really encapsulates that stereotype for masculine energy, and we are full human beings, we have masculine and feminine in us. And the way that we express both of those things is that that balance between them that yin and that Yang, that ability to get things done to like, express ourselves, but also to like, find that win win, and that way to compromise in that way to like, live in a common space together with one another.

Unknown Speaker  53:29  
Yes. And I think, all too often, when, when we've come from this bunny energy, and being told that that's what's ideal for us, as women, we think that, then what we need to do is be the dragon to be loud, to be heard to be strong to be forceful, when really, that can be just as damaging and just as effective as the bunny, but just in different ways.

Teri Hales  53:59  
Been there done that he told you about leaving the church and just being like, really?

Unknown Speaker  54:03  
Yes, even. So I grew up in an abusive home. And in that my, my dad was the primary abuser and my mom was more in the victim space. And so when I got married, one of the first times that we had a friend over, I totally flipped into more of, I won't even say dragon, but it was more in the like, I want my friend to know that I'm the I'm the one that wears the pants in this relationship. And in my head it was because that was the lesser of two evils. Like I wasn't going to be the victim. And so after my friend left, my husband said to me, he was like, I really didn't like the way you treated me when your friend was here. And all of a sudden I was like, oh my goodness, like I hadn't even realized what I had done. But in my attempts to not be a victim in our marriage, even though neither of us were being abusive. But coming from that background, that was where my brain went, I turned into the mean antagonistic, almost abuser, in that situation. And so I was really thankful that he stepped into his vocal empowerment in that moment and told me that so that I could see that because I literally had not even realized that's what I was doing. But as I paused to sit and sit with that, and see what was happening, why did I do that? That's not me. I realized that that's what had happened, and the reasoning behind that. And so I was able to kind of process and work through that. But yeah, it can be really tempting to swing from one, one side all the way to the other, when really a happy medium is really what's going to be the most productive, successful, and bring the most happiness into our lives.

Teri Hales  55:52  
Absolutely, yeah. When we come from structures of power over, which is what patriarchy is, which is what you know, if you're an abusive, dynamic, there's a power over dynamic, there are two dichotomies that we see we see those that have the power that dominate and we see those that are submissive and don't have the power. And so when we don't want to be the submissive, one that doesn't have the power anymore, we do often swing to Well, I don't want to be this. So I must be this. And then and I don't think it really compute sometimes that there is a place in the middle where we have power with, and we share power, and we, you know, collaborate, we communicate together. And we find ways that work for both of us that one isn't dominating over the other, we're working together to create something that works for both of us. But I think when you come from an abusive or a power dynamic, where there's power over, it doesn't even like it doesn't register that that's even an option. Until we see it modeled, or we read about it, or we go to therapy, and they're like, Oh,

Unknown Speaker  57:00  
here's a new way, which is why I am just so passionate about helping others to take power in their voice in a healthy way. Because I've seen and I've experienced myself, how challenging it can be to find that middle when you only know the two extremes. And if you have spent your whole life being silenced, and silencing yourself and feeling like you couldn't speak up, it's very, very easy to then swing into things that you're later going to go man, I wish I would have known better, so I could have done better. And so I love helping people know better so that they can do better before they have to go and repair some harm that they did.

Teri Hales  57:40  
Yeah. Well, if people want to work with you, where can they find you? How, how can they follow you on your incredible journey, teaching people to have be true to themselves and be able to speak their truth?

Unknown Speaker  57:54  
Yeah, so the best place would be to go to my website, it's just my name Terina maldonado.com. From there, you can find links to my social media, which I love to have fun on, and share advice and tips. And just to have a little fun there. And I've been doing monthly little webinars that are free. So if anybody wants to hop on the next one is going to be on the 22nd of October, or November this month. And so we're going to be talking all about boundaries. So if anybody wanted to hop on and learn some more about boundaries, they can do that. Also, on my website, I have a free self care and journal workbook that you can snag and have to kind of help work you through some of those first steps of learning to care for yourself and some good journaling prompts for you.

Teri Hales  58:47  
Oh, I love it. And I love your reels I was telling her before we started hitting record that I love watching her do her reels. She obviously is having so much fun. Whenever she makes them you can just see it on her face, and then the energy that comes through the screen. So please go to her website, go and follow her on Instagram. Go pick up the self care and journal workbook. Because you know all of these little tools, they all help us move along. We're all still learning and evolving. And we will be for the rest of our lives learning and evolving and getting to know ourselves better and it gets to be this wonderful adventure. Thank you so much. Terina for coming on the podcast. This was so much fun. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker  59:30  
You are so welcome. Thanks for such a great conversation.

Teri Hales  59:34  
No, I think I learned so much. I've got notes over here. So thank you. Thank you. And we will see you all next Sunday.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai